Pyrotomic1 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 58 minutes ago, Fineas J. Whoopie said: It is rare. Nobody is saying it's not. Nobody ever said it was worth $25,000 either. I know it's rude to speak for another but by "had" I think Brian was referring to the fact that it looks like you were collecting praise for the piece (which it deserves) so you could claim we are saying it's worth more than it is. Justin's appraisal of the current market value is just as honest as all the praise and congratulations for the find which you were happy to accept. By the way, no one is "upset" about your listing of the gun. If you were to get $25,000 for it, why would anyone who owns one have a problem with that? It would only reflect positively on their own example. You seemed to be interested in the facts when they were favorable to you but now that they depart from the expectations you pulled out of who knows where (you still haven't told us the answer to the reasonable question of where you got that price) you don't want to believe them. Believe what you want but we don't have a responsibility to keep our opinions or the facts to ourselves. I honestly wish you good luck. But prior to today, the opinions were "best of the best", "Collector's dream of a find like this", "Find of a lifetime". Now, the opinions are vastly different and one member has 5 mint ones to sell for $2800 each, which I offered to purchase, one or all, and as expected.............. silence. Never stated anything about having 5 mint ones to sell for $2800 each, "just like mine" for the 6 months of my tenure here, but today that was mentioned. Oddly enough, I don't see any for sale on his webpages, go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fineas J. Whoopie Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I see, it's actually our fault. We should have explained to you in detail that each area of collecting is different. You just don't realize the small size of the toy ray gun market. By that I mean how many toy ray gun collectors there are. All of the other areas of collecting you mention have exponentially larger numbers of collectors who vie for the items - much bigger demands for the supply. It's apples and oranges. In Toy ray gun collecting a piece that gets $2800 IS a big deal.. Just so you know, ray guns that are "no big deal" realize far less than a Pyro pistol. Plus I can't find where anyone said that the Pyro is "no big deal". The confusion all boils down to the fact that when we said "holy Grail" you heard huge bucks. Again, believe what you want but please don't put words into our posts. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fineas J. Whoopie Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Who is offering to sell five Pyro pistols? Do you think people don't know what has actually been said in this thread and will believe what you say just because it was the last thing written? The internet IS dumbing down the world, but not THAT dumb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotomic1 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Fineas J. Whoopie said: I see, it's actually our fault. We should have explained to you in detail that each area of collecting is different. You just don't realize the small size of the toy ray gun market. By that I mean how many toy ray gun collectors there are. All of the other areas of collecting you mention have exponentially larger numbers of collectors who vie for the items - much bigger demands for the supply. It's apples and oranges. In Toy ray gun collecting a piece that gets $2800 IS a big deal.. Just so you know, ray guns that are "no big deal" realize far less than a Pyro pistol. Plus I can't find where anyone said that the Pyro is "no big deal". The confusion all boils down to the fact that when we said "holy Grail" you heard huge bucks. Again, believe what you want but please don't put words into our posts. Good luck! Why is it so small? The value ceiling? Sci-fi is a huge collectible market. Just look at what people pay for a cast signed Star Wars poster? And 99% of cast posters are forgeries! 6 months ago, I called Hakes and asked them to put me on a list for a candy red pyro pistol, or the copper/silver and the red rifle. I told them that I will outbid the field at auction or outbid the offer for a straight sale. No calls. If I called leading sportscard dealers and told them I wanted a 1955 Topps Aaron rookie or a PSA 9 T206 (1909-11) Red Cobb, or even the ultra rare T-206 Ty Cobb red/Ty Cobb tobacco back (about 15 known) and I would outbid anyone to get it, I'd have a dozen of each to choose from within an hour!! The only limit would be $$$$, the pieces readily available. I did that with the ray gun. Made it no secret that I wanted a red one, "and a red rifle, and a copper rifle, etc., etc.". I said I'd pay well. Nobody offered. Couldn't find one to buy at any price. So again, I ask, why is something I can't find for love of money, so inexpensive? Now I can buy 5 Mint ones for $2800 each, or so I'm told. He never wrote back here after I accepted. Why are the rare pieces in this hobby, so impossibly difficult to find, basically worthless compared to much less rare pieces in other hobbies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fineas J. Whoopie Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Rocket said: Regarding value; I have owned 5 copper Pyro Pistols, all were mint with no damage like yours. Sale prices over a 10 year period ranged from $1600 to $2400. loose. If I were to sell the mint, copper example in my collection in today's market (privately), which is somewhat depressed from a decade ago, I would probably ask $2800 or so. The two, boxed colored examples I had sold for $10K, and $7K respectively in the last 6-8 years. If I had a boxed example at this moment in time I suspect it might sell for $5500 to $6K in this current market. If I were to put my loose, mint copper gun on ebay in an auction listing right now with no reserve and $9.99 opening bid, my best guess is it would close for between $1600 and $2000, although it might ring the bell and top $3K because a mint copper example hasn't been on eBay in a while.... but then again it's summer and many prospective buyers are on vacation, and the economy is shaky, so it might tank too. Rocket -[O_O]- If I were to put my loose..... Do you actually read this to say I am selling five examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotomic1 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fineas J. Whoopie said: Who is offering to sell five Pyro pistols? Do you think people don't know what has actually been said in this thread and will believe what you say just because it was the last thing written? The internet IS dumbing down the world, but not THAT dumb! Rocket says he has them. He'd sell one now for $2800. I said OK. I'm still waiting to hear back. Unlike Rocket, I know that searching high and low for any for sale since December, and researching for past sales, I'd be foolish to pass up another Mint one "just like mine", for $2800. I'm just waiting to hear that he's listing it so I can buy it. My sense is that $2800 for a Mint one is a great deal, despite the naysayers. I know very little about this hobby compared to the members. But I know about searching for another one like mine and the candy red one, and thusfar, I've come up blank and it isn't for lack of intently trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fineas J. Whoopie Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 OK you are right. It's actually worth $100K. We were keeping it a secret because........I'm sure you will explain to us why you think we were lying to you. I can't for the life of me figure out what you think is going on. Other than you are obviously hanging on to the fantasy that you are going to convince someone to pay $25K for it. Like I said before you have the right to believe what you want. Over and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fineas J. Whoopie Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 "Rocket says he has them. He'd sell one now for $2800." I get it. You can barely read English. My Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotomic1 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 22 minutes ago, Fineas J. Whoopie said: If I were to put my loose..... Do you actually read this to say I am selling five examples? I'm actually reading between the lines. Not once, when I queried value, did Rocket say, "I sold 5 mint ones, just like yours, for $1600 to $2000 over the last x number of years". This is the first time I read this. Also, I don't see an internet record of any MINT copper/silver ray guns being sold on the net at all. He further stated that he would sell one for $2800. I said, "OK, let's go". I still am unconvinced that it's the common dreck that Rocket thinks it to be. I'd really like to see the images of the 5 MINT ones, just like mine, that Rocket has sold for $1600 to $2000, because reading between the lines, it sure does seem like an effort to devalue and demoralize the possibility of my selling mine, and I consider myself fairly perceptive. Especially that there's no internet record of these sales whatsoever that I can find. And I've looked long and hard, believe me. "I sold 5 mint ones just like yours" (for $1600 to $2000) "In the tank" "Shaky economy" Really? Follow the stock market, does he? Record and rising prices in most investment collectible areas. "People on vacation" You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to read between those lines. Especially when you consider the timing Maybe this is why the best piece (as I was previously told) in the best condition is so inexpensive compared to other hobby's top 10 pieces. The members of the hobby itself holding it back with discouraging and disparaging words. Which is strange, because prior to my ebay listing, the palaver was all encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotomic1 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 20 minutes ago, Fineas J. Whoopie said: OK you are right. It's actually worth $100K. We were keeping it a secret because........I'm sure you will explain to us why you think we were lying to you. I can't for the life of me figure out what you think is going on. Other than you are obviously hanging on to the fantasy that you are going to convince someone to pay $25K for it. Like I said before you have the right to believe what you want. Over and out. I never said you were lying. The opinion of the piece changed. Drastically. Do I need the $25Gs? No. Am I trying to "take someone"? No I am not. I thought it would be good for the hobby. The right piece, in the right shape. A find of a lifetime? What's that worth in other hobbies? Millions. $25K seems low by comparison, no? And what did it take to find it? A 140 year old house. An attic. A dusty old box that was undisturbed, sealed with string and tape for 64 years. How often are those circumstances going to be duplicated. And to pull a mint grail piece out of that box? Happen every day? Every week? Every year? What's those set of circumstances worth? I thought it would be good for the hobby, not a curse. Stir up some action. Bring attention to a hobby that seems ready to break out pricewise. $25,000 buys you very little of any significance in most hobbies. Pretty good for someone that's only semi-literate with a limited use of functional, basic English, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotomic1 Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 On 6/28/2019 at 7:10 PM, Fineas J. Whoopie said: You can barely read English. My Apologies. On 6/28/2019 at 7:10 PM, Fineas J. Whoopie said: "Rocket says he has them. He'd sell one now for $2800." I get it. You can barely read English. My Apologies. I wouldn't need to barely read English if Rocket would be so kind as to post the images of the 5 different Mint ray guns, "just like mine" that he sold for $1600 to $2000 each. I love the toy and I'd love to see them. This is the place for info like that. Despite incessant searches for them over the past 6 months there aren't any internet records of those 5 mint copper and silver ray guns on the net anywhere that I can find, and I looked everywhere for 6 months prior to Rocket's revelation today. And that's given my extremely limited skills with the Queen's English that you've recently diagnosed and addressed, thank you Dr. Whoopie. And I am grateful for all the help I received up until I listed it. This was the last reaction I expected. Condemnation. Insults. And for what? So there's no misunderstanding that I in any way "had" anyone by asking advice, absorbing it, then repeating what I was told, I'll remove all references in my listing to this forum, references and quotes volunteered by members. If the gun sells, it'll be on it's own merits, rarity, and value. Anyone that wants one will shop for it, realize that "I sold 5 Mint ones for $1600 over the last 30 years" doesn't put one in your hand now for $1600. And not even for $16,000. If it doesn't sell, I have a piece that I still cherish. Doesn't cost much to list it (free). So let it sit there and we'll see. The reactions here and their drastic change did nothing to sour me on the piece, but it did help me to understand why this hobby, in general, has not taken off like others, in spite of some of the best hobby pieces in other areas not even being this rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyman Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 People here really care about this hobby and are not in it for the money. Your comparisons to other hobbies is simply how much money you can make. We don't work that way. To many of us $2800 is a lot of money. The "perceived" value of the gun was your error not ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotomic1 Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 On 6/28/2019 at 9:13 PM, Andyman said: People here really care about this hobby and are not in it for the money. Your comparisons to other hobbies is simply how much money you can make. We don't work that way. To many of us $2800 is a lot of money. The "perceived" value of the gun was your error not ours. So someone is wrong to sell one? If so, how did everybody here get all their toys? 64 year old unopened attic boxes? I don't think my perceived value is wrong. Hold on a sec. I'm going to my bedroom drawer. BRB............. ................. OK. Now, I'm sitting here with $2800 in my hand. To me, it's a lot of money. Certainly not chump change. But I'd rather have another mint gun like mine for $2800 than the $2800, and that's how collectibles get bought. Question is: Who? Which one of you will sell me a Mint original Pyrotomic Disintegrator pistol for that $2800? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? If everything being said about it being a $2000 gun is correct, why can't I find anyone (for 6 months now) to sell me one for $2800? or less? or more? Where are all the sellers who will sell me a $20 bill for $28, pocket $8 and go out and replace it easily for the same $20 it's worth? Because money is evil? That's called commerce. $2000 gun, sell one to me for $2800, pocket the $800, pay some bills (you all do pay bills, right?) and buy the same mint gun again for $2000. Where's my gun for $2800? I'm a buyer. Please take advantage of me and rip me off. Sell me a mint one, red or copper/silver for $2800. I won't mind being taken. But we all know that's not going to happen, because the only person on earth that has an original, 1952-3 vintage, perfect, mint condition copper and silver Pyrotomic Disintegrator available for sale to the public to-day, the last 6 months, or as far as I could find, the last 30 years, is me, and that appears to be absolutely killing some people here to the extent that they'll talk of the gun "being in the tank" without a shred of the evidence of sales to show it being "in the tank" due to the "bad economy" in a laughable effort to thwart the gun's value and sale. Note for Rocket: For an item to be trending "in the tank", you need sales of that item to establish a trend. No sales over the past 10 years = no trend, no sky, no tank. That's how "in the tank" is determined. Not by someone saying it's in the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyman Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 You talk like a speculator. You are not going to juice this hobby with a $25,000 askng price. Go back to baseball cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotomic1 Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 34 minutes ago, Andyman said: People here really care about this hobby and are not in it for the money. Your comparisons to other hobbies is simply how much money you can make. We don't work that way. To many of us $2800 is a lot of money. The "perceived" value of the gun was your error not ours. No. My comparisons have to do with value. Value is not money. Let me show you how that works to better explain. I have $2800 to spend. But if I decide that I'd rather have another gun just like mine than that $2800, and nobody on earth is willing to sell me one for that amount, it points to several things: 1) maybe nobody has one to sell after all, at any price (except for me) 2) That $2800 is money with buying potential, but as far as procuring me the same gun as mine, it has no value for that purpose and to that end, that $2800 may as well be worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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