Pyrotomic Disintegrator Ray Gun - The "Attic Find"

[Brian..]

I'm confident that the rifle always came boxed. The Argentine and Spanish versions were boxed, though admittedly the Portuguese one came in trade boxes. This rifle has a more complicated history than you'd imagine.

Incidentally, the Spanish rifle is the spectacular Disintegrador. It comes in the vibrant red, yellow and blue of the candy pistol.  Like the Pyro it came in a box showing a red rifle. There is a bronze version of the Disintegrador but I'm not aware of a bronze box. 

Personally I prefer the red pistol. The gun looks more spacey and matches that rare box. The Pyro candy pistol and the red Disintegrador make a killer pair.

[Pyrotomic1]

1 hour ago, Brian.. said:

I'm confident that the rifle always came boxed. The Argentine and Spanish versions were boxed, though admittedly the Portuguese one came in trade boxes. This rifle has a more complicated history than you'd imagine.

Incidentally, the Spanish rifle is the spectacular Disintegrador. It comes in the vibrant red, yellow and blue of the candy pistol.  Like the Pyro it came in a box showing a red rifle. There is a bronze version of the Disintegrador but I'm not aware of a bronze box. 

Personally I prefer the red pistol. The gun looks more spacey and matches that rare box. The Pyro candy pistol and the red Disintegrador make a killer pair.

I was referring to the pistol. Curious as to whether anyone has ever seen an original box with the copper/silver pictured.

I've done a lot of searching for an image of one and failed. Yet, images of the red pistol's original box are present. Not even one image, or mention, of a copper/silver pistol pictured on a box.

ToyTent makes and sells a reproduction of the red pistol's original box. But not a copper/silver one.

Of interest is that although every toy I found in large sealed boxes from this period, 1953-1955, was in its original box, The copper/silver pistol was not! Were they sold loose? No factory box, like the red pistol was sold in? Shipped/distributed loose in cartons to toy vendors who put them in their bins?  Maybe a price sticker placed on the gun?

I didn't even wipe my ray gun down. It survived immaculately. But there is what looks like two tiny puffs of what looks like old sticker residue that didn't mar the surface. I just left it alone. If this one came in a factory box, there would have been no need to place a price sticker on it, to my thinking.

Maybe the copper/silver one never came in a factory box, an idea that would be reinforced if nobody has ever seen one.

[Brian..]

That's the great thing about collecting. You can never be sure what's out there. You can prove a box does exist but you can't prove it doesn't. The database was set up to try to clarify the confusion. 

I'd still guess that there's just one box. Why increase costs by designing two?  And if you have a box why not put the gun in it? It's a rather delicate piece and not a dime store toy. 

While I'm speculating I'll lay odds that there are Spanish and Argentinan versions of the pistol waiting to be found.  And I bet a little old lady has a red Pyrotomic rifle in her attic.

[Pyrotomic1]

5 hours ago, Brian.. said:

That's the great thing about collecting. You can never be sure what's out there. You can prove a box does exist but you can't prove it doesn't. The database was set up to try to clarify the confusion. 

I'd still guess that there's just one box. Why increase costs by designing two?  And if you have a box why not put the gun in it? It's a rather delicate piece and not a dime store toy. 

While I'm speculating I'll lay odds that there are Spanish and Argentinan versions of the pistol waiting to be found.  And I bet a little old lady has a red Pyrotomic rifle in her attic.

Ain't that the truth! I walked around under the third floor attic for 60+ years and never knew there were sealed boxes that contained toys and sports and non-sports cards in pristine condition, just sitting there. I thought it was 140 years worth of dishes, clothes, knick-knacks, etc.  

I always avoided the unfinished full attic because of bad allergies to pollen, mold, and dust. Only discovered it because I was moving things around prior to finishing the attic. I didn't even realize what it was when I opened the box and saw it among the other toys, until I googled the raised lettering, Pyrotomic Disintegrator, on the sides of the gun. At first, thought it was just another period gun with no special significance. Had no idea I was holding a hobby grail until I looked online.

Here's the attic where it was located since ca. 1955

 

[Andyman]

Yup, that's every collector's fantasy right there.

[Tinplate6]

Oh yeah...my kind of attic! American Picker territory.

 

[Rocket]

@Pyrotomic1I see you have listed your holy grail Pyro pistol on ebay? How did you come up with the $25,000. price? 

Also curious how you came to the decision to sell after locating the matching rifle?

Re; your question about an original box showing the copper gun; as Brian pointed out it's highly unlikely Pyro printed another box than the one showing the red gun - in my experience most toys from this era that come in different colors, the box is almost always the same but often the color of the toy inside is stamped on the end panel of the box. I have three boxed examples of the same tin car in different colors and the graphics and colors on each box is identical but the color of the toy inside is stamped on the end flap; red, silver, or blue.

Note too, Pyro switched up the colors on the red guns; original examples found may all have the red body, but the barrel might be yellow with blue tip, or blue with yellow tip. Renwal is known for this too... their plastic helmet comes yellow frame with red finial and blue earphones, but also with blue finial and red phones. Box art was often made up before production began, so toys often don't match perfectly the box art. These were relatively inexpensive kids' toys, the cost to print two different boxes would be prohibitive. By the way, my box was marked "$1.99" in pencil on the end flap. 

It is possible the copper Pyros were sold loose, there are many examples of retailers removing the packaging and putting the price right on the toy and putting in a bin, but in this case it's unlikely; the toy was large and fragile, plus the box is colorful with great graphics, it's unlikely retailers would discard such a big, attractive box. 

I have had two boxed Pyro pistols, one was domestically sold, but the other was sold in Canada. Both boxes were identical except the US one has a US patent number and mentions "foreign patent applied for", and the Canadian box had the Canadian patent number. The Canadian gun itself was the red/yellow/blue but the colors were definitely different from the US gun, they were much more pastel and the blue was really turquoise green. 

Nice find, I'm surprised you're selling it. 

Rocket -[O_O]-

(Justin - ToyRayGun.com)

[Rocket]

Regarding value; I have owned 5 copper Pyro Pistols, all were mint with no damage like yours. Sale prices over a 10 year period ranged from $1600 to $2400. loose. If I were to sell the mint, copper example in my collection in today's market (privately), which is somewhat depressed from a decade ago, I would probably ask $2800 or so. 

The two, boxed colored examples I had sold for $10K, and $7K respectively in the last 6-8 years. If I had a boxed example at this moment in time I suspect it might sell for $5500 to $6K in this current market. 

If I were to put my loose, mint copper gun on ebay in an auction listing right now with no reserve and $9.99 opening bid, my best guess is it would close for between $1600 and $2000, although it might ring the bell and top $3K because a mint copper example hasn't been on eBay in a while.... but then again it's summer and many prospective buyers are on vacation, and the economy is shaky, so it might tank too. 

Rocket -[O_O]-

[Pyrotomic1]

51 minutes ago, Rocket said:

Regarding value; I have owned 5 copper Pyro Pistols, all were mint with no damage like yours. Sale prices over a 10 year period ranged from $1600 to $2400. loose. If I were to sell the mint, copper example in my collection in today's market (privately), which is somewhat depressed from a decade ago, I would probably ask $2800 or so. 

The two, boxed colored examples I had sold for $10K, and $7K respectively in the last 6-8 years. If I had a boxed example at this moment in time I suspect it might sell for $5500 to $6K in this current market. 

If I were to put my loose, mint copper gun on ebay in an auction listing right now with no reserve and $9.99 opening bid, my best guess is it would close for between $1600 and $2000, although it might ring the bell and top $3K because a mint copper example hasn't been on eBay in a while.... but then again it's summer and many prospective buyers are on vacation, and the economy is shaky, so it might tank too. 

Rocket -[O_O]-

If you're a seller of a MINT original Pyrotomic Disintegrator pistol at $2800, I'm a buyer for $2800. Copper or red. Can you list it for $5500 on ebay, make offer, I'll offer $2800, and you accept? If it's only worth $2000, you can easily replace it for that and be $800 ahead. How soon can we do this? I'll pay quickly. Seriously. I'll even pay $3000 if we can do this today!

[Brian..]

Rocket's right. Your price is up there with the Ebay crazies. 

We replied to your questions and enthusiasm in good faith, but now I feel we've been had. 

[Pyrotomic1]

38 minutes ago, Brian.. said:

Rocket's right. Your price is up there with the Ebay crazies. 

We replied to your questions and enthusiasm in good faith, but now I feel we've been had. 

Had? How? People that log onto a website to seek advice shouldn't do that? I was under the mistaken impression that the gun was rare. And if they decide to offer a piece advice was sought on, they're wrong?

[Pyrotomic1]

2 hours ago, Rocket said:

@Pyrotomic1I see you have listed your holy grail Pyro pistol on ebay? How did you come up with the $25,000. price? 

Also curious how you came to the decision to sell after locating the matching rifle?

Re; your question about an original box showing the copper gun; as Brian pointed out it's highly unlikely Pyro printed another box than the one showing the red gun - in my experience most toys from this era that come in different colors, the box is almost always the same but often the color of the toy inside is stamped on the end panel of the box. I have three boxed examples of the same tin car in different colors and the graphics and colors on each box is identical but the color of the toy inside is stamped on the end flap; red, silver, or blue.

Note too, Pyro switched up the colors on the red guns; original examples found may all have the red body, but the barrel might be yellow with blue tip, or blue with yellow tip. Renwal is known for this too... their plastic helmet comes yellow frame with red finial and blue earphones, but also with blue finial and red phones. Box art was often made up before production began, so toys often don't match perfectly the box art. These were relatively inexpensive kids' toys, the cost to print two different boxes would be prohibitive. By the way, my box was marked "$1.99" in pencil on the end flap. 

It is possible the copper Pyros were sold loose, there are many examples of retailers removing the packaging and putting the price right on the toy and putting in a bin, but in this case it's unlikely; the toy was large and fragile, plus the box is colorful with great graphics, it's unlikely retailers would discard such a big, attractive box. 

I have had two boxed Pyro pistols, one was domestically sold, but the other was sold in Canada. Both boxes were identical except the US one has a US patent number and mentions "foreign patent applied for", and the Canadian box had the Canadian patent number. The Canadian gun itself was the red/yellow/blue but the colors were definitely different from the US gun, they were much more pastel and the blue was really turquoise green. 

Nice find, I'm surprised you're selling it. 

Rocket -[O_O]-

(Justin - ToyRayGun.com)

I was laboring under the false impression that these were rare. In 6 months, I have been unable to locate another one for sale in any condition, partial, broken, working, non-working, sweaty, or mint!  Dr. Atomic's page states about 15 of them exist, copper/silver + Red ones. That's not every many, is it?

There were 64 Mint condition 1952 Topps Mantles that broke out of an unopened cello case in 1988. They were sold for $2200 each and all have graded PSA 8, 9, and even a few 10s! A million dollars+ each today. 64 of them.

I have numerous searches set up on multiple engines that I refresh daily, looking for any original pyrotomic ray gun that might be offered either for sale, or even mentioned s found. Nothing. No new hits since I started looking 6 months ago. Just the usual Portuguese rifles for $149@.

Now that I've offered it, with a price based on a red one selling for $10,000 and $7000 years ago, it's not rare?

I don't get it. Unless the mere act of my offering it on ebay is upsetting people.

[Pyrotomic1]

38 minutes ago, Brian.. said:

Rocket's right. Your price is up there with the Ebay crazies. 

We replied to your questions and enthusiasm in good faith, but now I feel we've been had. 

You still haven't explained how you/the forum, have been "had"?

Do you want people who find a piece, or have questions about a piece to join and share, or don't you? I assumed that you did. I joined other genre associated forums for different things I found as well; antique forums, antique watches, artwork, etc., you name it.

They seemed glad to welcome and eager to help with advice, as did y'all here, until now. If you don't want people to join, post a find, and ask questions after presenting that find, you should explain that in the rules or on the registration page.

Everything I know about the Pyrotomics ray gun and rifle was learned here, or by reading members' websites. I'm a quick study and I found loads of information. Very grateful for that. I'm sure that everyone here knows far more about the hobby in general than I do. But everything I've read concerning this gun points to it being extremely rare and fragile, thus a grail find. That's what was mentioned here by what I took it to be, the experts. All the text from my listing is an amalgamation of what I was told here, by the experts.

Now, it's not rare, and actually no big deal, only worth about 2 grand, and everybody has been had, even though I didn't mention it being listed on ebay here. Never used the forum to sell it. Never tried to sell it to anyone. Had? Everyone has been "had"? Really?

 

 

 

[Fineas J. Whoopie]

It is rare. Nobody is saying it's not. Nobody ever said it was worth $25,000 either. I know it's rude to speak for another but by "had" I think Brian was referring to the fact that it looks like you were collecting praise for the piece (which it deserves) so you could claim we are saying it's worth more than it is. Justin's appraisal of the current market value is just as honest as all the praise and congratulations for the find which you were happy to accept. By the way, no one is "upset" about your listing of the gun. If you were to get $25,000 for it, why would anyone who owns one have a problem with that? It would only reflect positively on their own example. You seemed to be interested in the facts when they were favorable to you but now that they depart from the expectations you pulled out of who knows where (you still haven't told us the answer to the reasonable question of where you got that price) you don't want to believe them. Believe what you want but we don't have a responsibility to keep our opinions or the facts to ourselves. I honestly wish you good luck.

[Pyrotomic1]

1 hour ago, Fineas J. Whoopie said:

It is rare. Nobody is saying it's not. Nobody ever said it was worth $25,000 either. I know it's rude to speak for another but by "had" I think Brian was referring to the fact that it looks like you were collecting praise for the piece (which it deserves) so you could claim we are saying it's worth more than it is. Justin's appraisal of the current market value is just as honest as all the praise and congratulations for the find which you were happy to accept. By the way, no one is "upset" about your listing of the gun. If you were to get $25,000 for it, why would anyone who owns one have a problem with that? It would only reflect positively on their own example. You seemed to be interested in the facts when they were favorable to you but now that they depart from the expectations you pulled out of who knows where (you still haven't told us the answer to the reasonable question of where you got that price) you don't want to believe them. Believe what you want but we don't have a responsibility to keep our opinions or the facts to ourselves. I honestly wish you good luck.

I never stated that anyone from here claimed a $25,000 value; not here, not in the listing. I never attributed that value as a reference from here.

Again, I was going by what I was told here. That it was rare. A once in a lifetime find. The best of the best. This is what was written by members. Their opinions. "The find collector's dream of".

So as far as price.  Let's say it was the "best of the best", as I was told. It's not. In fact, now I learn, nothing special. Just another toy, one of far too many, nobody needs or wants it, it's junk. And I'm crazy.

If it were, as I was misled to believe, rare and the "best of the best", what are some of the best of the best in other hobbies worth?

Let's say:

Baseball cards. The trimmed/altered PSA 8 Wagner sold for almost 3 mil last time around and a PSA 9 1952 Topps Mantle (64 found in one case!) for that much as well. $25,000 doesn't even scratch the top 1000 as far as collectible baseball/football/hockey cards go!

Tiger Woods rookies were selling for $150,000+ a number of years ago.

Records: Wu Tang Clan's Once Upon a Time sold for well over $1 mil.

So stupid me, believing what I was told here, "best of the best" sort of comments, bought it. If anyone was had, it was me. I believed the lies, that it was the most sought after ray gun and rare as hen's teeth.

No I find out that's far from true. I mean, what did I know? I asked here. I never looked into the hobby before, I trusted the advice, again, stupid me, that's my fault.

Based on what I was told, and considering that $25,000 barely scratches the surface of the top 100 in most hobbies, I thought that a reasonable price, if what I was told was true. Best of the best.

It was easy to fall for because I can't find another for sale. And I made a concerted effort to do so. I can't even find past internet sales of copper/silver piece aside from the broken one that sold years ago with the firing rod broken off.

So let me ask. This certainly isn't, but what are some of the best ray guns in this hobby? Does the Pyro even crack the top 100? And if a red pyro sold for $10,000 years ago, why did somebody pay $10,000 for junk? Wouldn't it have been better for them to buy one of the top pieces, whatever they are, instead of junk? And who was the seller who foisted that garbage on an unsuspecting buyer for $10,000? Shouldn't he be ashamed to have sold a worthless piece for that much? All valid questions, no?

And if that's the most that a ray gun has sold for thusfar, $10,000, why so cheap? Compared to other hobbies. $10,000 doesn't even pay the house vigorish or sales tax on the top 100 in most hobbies and collectible venues. Neither does $25,000!

What are the ray guns that should command the top values in this hobby?