Brian.. Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I always took it for granted that there was a pre-war Flash Gordon rocket. And everywhere you look you see reference to these early versions. Here's a typical listing from a major robot specialist auction catalog:"FLASH GORDON ROCKET FIGHTER Marx..12"L tin WU. Circa 1939"But I can't find a single confirmed pre-war example. Was the 1952 release the first? Please put me out of my misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil R Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Brian, what I understand is this. The original version of the rocket with Flash Gordon on the wings is 1939. The version with no identification on the wings but otherwise looks the same is 1951. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian.. Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Thanks, Phil, but I'm not sure. The version with Flash Gordon on the wings is from 1952, the year after the non-Flash Gordon version.You, too, believe in the1939 version. Most people do. But where is it? I'm beginning to think that it's a long running error. I guess I'll be shot down in flames when Xris posts ten color variations but I really have looked hard for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blechroboter Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 There is also a rocket ship repro made by Schilling Brothers in 2004.On bottom of box is written:"OUR FLASH GORDON ROCKET FIGHTER IS A FAITHFUL REPRODUCTION OF THE MOST SOUGHT AFTER TOY OF 1939..."This isn´t really helpful Brian, isn´t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian.. Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Thanks! It just shows that the story is well entrenched. Here are some more observations that emphasise the point.Description: Marx Flash Gordon rocket Fighter American, circa late 1930s,.......................In 1939, using the same die that produced their second version Buck Rogers rocketship toy, the Marx artists and engineers created a new litho design that featured that other great hero of the spaceways, Flash Gordon. In typical Marx fashion, this gave the firm two toys for their line with only minimal investment in producing the second........................The originals had key-wound motors and date from 1939 with a re-release in 1951 although the 1951 version did not have the name Flash Gordon on it nor a number '5' on the wheel nacelles........................REPRODUCTION OF THE 1939 MARX TOY.......................As it did with the Buck Rogers space ships, Louis Marx sold a Flash Gordon rocket ship in 1941........................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blechroboter Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Next Flash Gordon Toy, same dates On website of the "Smithsonian National Air And Space Museum" is writtenThis Flash Gordon Arresting Ray Pistol toy issued by American toymaker Louis Marx & Co. beginning in 1952 was made using the same design as an earlier, 1930s, Flash Gordon toy gun also produced by Marx. Updating the graphics on the lithography allowed the toy maker to update the toy at little additional cost.Link: http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A19970789000 Now my question is, are there toy catalogues of Louis Marx with dates of 1939 and 1952? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fineas J. Whoopie Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 How about a patent number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian.. Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 I've discovered that patents are unreliable evidence. They are often granted long after the toy is in production, or long before production. Most Japanese patents appears to be fictional. In any case the patent would be for the design that was first used for the Buck Rogers Rocket Ship, a toy that undeniably existed in 1934. There would be no need to have a patent for a Flash Gordon version, that's a trademark issue.I'm browsing literally thousands of newspaper advertisements. I can find many Buck Rogers Rocket Ship hits from 1934 onward. The only reference to Flash Gordon is to the two early guns. There is a complete absence of anything rocket-like until 1951. The 1951 reference is a little confusing. See for yourself.it does, however, make a mess of the neat 1951/1952 distinction between the two versions. I'd just say that the "plain" version was widely advertised well before the "Flash Gordon" version.What is increasingly suggested is that the 1939 version is a myth. (There, I've said it. I will probably live to regret it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fineas J. Whoopie Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 So if we were to see a 1939 version what exactly would it look like? How would we know? Or are you only looking for a reference to the toy from 1939? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil R Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 You have a point , Brian about possible entrenchment of data. Logic, however, would indicate that the rocket was originally made in the 1930s, when the guns, etc. were made. Also, since you brought it up, I'm not sure what your point is about the Arresting Ray. The earlier gun, 1935, is the Radio Repeater, an entirely different graphic gun with the same die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian.. Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Yes, "logic" suggests the story that we've all grown up with. I've no idea what it would look like, but I think that's academic.If it existed it would leave some trace. The first trace is in 1951. Compare that with seventy adverts for the Buck Rogers version in winter 1934 alone.(I don't understand Blech's pistols comment, but I'm sure it's a good point.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fineas J. Whoopie Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 So we can't just search for an image of a 1939 version, we are looking for period verification like a catalog or advertisement sighting. I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkrobotik Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Well Ive just got into these what I think are rather underestimated space toys and all I can find out that has not already been mentioned is that the early first versions were made out of steel plate as opposed to tin plate. Whats the differance though,, is the steel plate thicker ? if so it must have been flaming heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian.. Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Yes, it's slightly thicker gauge metal. The rockets have more "heft" than Japanese equivalents. I'm pretty sure now that there is no trace of a Flash Gordon Rocket Ship before 1951. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkrobotik Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Heres another thing Brian ,,, lots of talk about the white and red box but where does the Blue box come into the mystery. Is it the Marx GB box ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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